Love Spirals Downwards – Constantly In A State Of Flux
By Daniel Bremmer
Love Spirals Downwards has always had a problem fitting in to any specific category. As on the first artists signed to Projekt, Ryan Lum and Suzanne Perry have been lumped in the same ethereal category as label mates Black Tape for a Blue Gil and Lycia. “I think our music is somewhat melancholy. Some goths really get off on it, some don’t,” remarks Perry. A friend introduced the duo to Projekt, which at the time were a small Pasadena label which largely served to release label owner Sam Rosenthal’s band, Black Tape for a Blue Girl. “I’ve seen the piles of demos from bands that would give their left arm to be on Projekt, and we had never even heard of them. They were really small then, we were at the right place at the right time,” says Lum.
Love Spirals Downwards create haunting tapestries of beautifully layered ethereal guitars and stirring, golden female vocals which seem sometimes like a shaft of sunlight making its way through the smoky gloom. Their debut album, Idylls, invited listeners into their shimmering world. With Ardor, their second release for Projekt, Love Spirals Downwards seem to have become more comfortable with their listeners and embrace them with their bare souls. In February, I spoke with the two members of Love Spirals Downwards, Ryan Lum and Suzanne Perry, about the change between albums, the band, and their impending tour.
Idylls seems a lot darker than Ardor.
Ryan: That’s interesting, because some people who we showed Ardor to before it came out said, ‘It’s not that different,’ and other people said, ‘You guys have really changed a lot.’
Your fundamental style has stayed the same; I think it’s just your approach.
Suzanne: Yeah, it’s definitely a little lighter – not much lighter, though. You couldn’t describe it as light, but when you compare it to Idylls, its kind like one step about suicidal, you know… (Laughs)
Ryan: I don’t think it’s suicidal.
Me neither. Melancholy, maybe.
Suzanne: Yeah, it’s not angry enough to be suicidal.
Why do you think it got lighter?
Suzanne: I think it was this drive to create something different, and then that just happened to be the product. It’s not something that we think a lot about.
Did things in your life start going better? You’re not suicidal anymore?
Ryan: (Laughing) We were never suicidal! Probably now I’m more suicidal than I was during Idylls, so… Not to say I’m suicidal but if you had to put it into degrees, I’m probably more than I was then.
Suzanne: I think [life is] pretty different, but I don’t know how much it’s reflected [in the music]. Huh. I mean, I don’t notice a serious change in my psyche where I’m going around with a bigger smile.
How did Love Spirals Downwards come about?
Suzanne: Well, Ryan has been doing music for a long time, starting out with guitar and stuff, and I’ve always been singing, but I never really thought of singing professionally or singing to produce something like a CD, or to be in a band; I always just sang. It’s actually been this really natural drive to use my voice and sing, but I never thought of it until Ryan and I started going out romantically. About a year and a half went by and it never occurred to us, ‘Hey, let’s do something musically together!’ One time we just got in the studio and the first song we ever made was “Forgo,” which is on Idylls. I had never written a song before. I just got in there and started humming in the microphone and that’s how it happened. We listened to it and thought, ‘Hey, that’s not too bad!’ Then we just made a couple more and sent them out.
How are your songs written?
Suzanne: Underwater. We do everything underwater.
Ryan: For the most part, I’ll always have the music almost done. Sometimes I won’t have the drums finished, or I might have a guitar part or two left, but the music’s done first. Once I have that done, I’ll bring it over to Suzanne and she’ll start humming and making up vocal parts. From there, we’ll start getting the words fitted into it, record that, then I mix the song down, and we’re done. It could take many months.
Ryan and Suzanne of LSD by Pieter Lessings 1995
So you have a live tour coming up?
Ryan: That’s being discussed right now. That’s not certain or finalized yet.
Suzanne: Well, that’s what Pat [from Projekt] is telling everyone.
Yeah, he sent out a letter to everyone saying that you might do a tour.
Ryan: Oh, is that how it happened?
Suzanne: Yeah, ‘cause he knows better than to say it’ll definitely happen. Let’s just cut to the chase on this one. The thing is, I wanna do it, but Ryan’s kinda dragging his feet on it, so I figured if I told Pat we would do it, and then he sent out a letter, then we’d do it.
Suzanne: Kind of…
Ryan: (Laughing) you went around me behind my back? Thanks.
Suzanne: No, we didn’t go around your back, but you were there when I said, ‘I think we can do it.’ ‘Cause at first I was starting to doubt whether we could do it, but now I’m thinking we might be boring, so…
Ryan: Yeah, we could do it. It’d just be the two of us. It’d be acoustic, with her singing and me playing acoustic guitar.
Suzanne: It could be boring, Andrew.
I don’t think it would be boring. I think the type of people that it would attract would do there expecting the type of music you play and be overwhelmed by your performance.
Ryan: Maybe so. Maybe if we do it I’ll be really surprised that people won’t be yawning or throwing beer cans at us or something. We’re really not much of a live band as you can tell from how we make music; it just kind of emerges from me messing around in the studio — so we never really rehearse our songs.
Suzanne: When I think about who we would play with… I guess that’s not how I think about our music. It’s definitely a lot more isolated, and just my whole way I think about myself as a musician, I don’t even think about it like that. It’s not part of my identity. I don’t go around saying, ‘I’m in a band.’ That’s usually, like, the last thing I mention. It’s not that I don’t love it, but I think it has something to do with my scorn for those musician types who go around and carry a guitar or something – ‘I’m in a band!’
Ryan: They give you their guitar picks after you meet them.
Suzanne: It’s just seriously lame and I can’t stand that.
Ryan: I was kinda joking ‘cause Suzanne liked this one guy she worked with…
Suzanne: Yeah, I was, like, 18.
Ryan: He was a bass player, and he gave her his guitar pick.
Suzanne: This happens to women all the time, I don’t know if you know, Andrew.
No, I never heard of this.
Suzanne: When I was going to clubs a lot, I don’t know why, but men will pick up on you and they will give you their guitar pick. No kidding! There’s no phone number on it, there’s no name, just a guitar pick. They will give it to you, and they think that that will turn you on.
Ryan: I never knew that. I sorta tried it since she told me about it, and it works!
How many guitar picks do you have?
Ryan: Oh, I have hundreds and hundreds.
Suzanne: No, he’s asking me.
Ryan: Oh… [much laugher] Yeah, how many do you have, Suzanne?
Suzanne: Well honestly, I lost the ones that I had gotten. I didn’t have a collection. Maybe five or six?
You should’ve made a necklace of them.
Suzanne: Yeah, that’s not a lot, but those are the ones I took. “I can’t take that from you. Like, it’s so valuable. I cannot take that, you need it for your performance tomorrow.”
The conversation started to ramble around then. Talking to Ryan and Suzanne felt more like taking to old friends than actually doing a standard band interview, proving that not all gothic or ethereal oriented musicians are pretentious and self-obsessed, a nasty preconception that many have about people involved in this genre. Check out Ardor if you can. And keep your eyes peeled for upcoming tour dates because if they do plan to tour, Florida is on their itinerary. That’s a concert that should not be missed.
“Into a Well of the Looking Glass” by Aaron Johnston
I was always involved with the ethereal music scene, but never to the degree where it became a driving passion. The nature and tone of the music was, in essence, a very articulate reflection of who I was in self, but there were simply no bands I knew of pushing the sound beyond its gates to a point of unavoidable adoration on my part. It wasn’t simply a matter of finding the perfect band, but of finding the perfect window. Through time and dedication, any group could eventually release an album with the most delicately perfect instrumentation and ideally placed melodic trim, but what is it if there is no decisive emotional push behind it? This question was at the forefront of my mind for many years, and was finally answered one evening as I sat down to listen to a prodigal young instrumentalist named Ryan Lum conspire with an astonishingly angelic vocalist named Suzanne Perry under the name Love Spirals Downwards.
Within a matter of moments, the two managed to capture a well of feelings and affections wrought with a long-held yearning for excommunication and deliverance; a subtle and pure exorcism of the soul. I always thought this kind of experience was a bit too “new age” to be truly revealed to anyone living in the real world, but I was disproved time and time again with each successive listen. I was, in all honesty, baffled by the two arms which were weaving me through the first stages of my spiritual and emotional re-education. Ryan and Suzanne had me wrapped around their fingers, plain and simple. Rather than a feeling of manipulation, however, I was a willing participant. Although it was the effort of two, the group worked almost in a doubled unison. I was traded between Ryan’s deep guitar and keyboard exchanges and Suzanne’s beautiful vocal raptures time and again with abandon. In essence, it felt as if I were being led along by a single hand with two separate bodies, two distinct minds thinking and reacting as one.
With the perfect symmetry in sound that flows so freely betwixt them, one would expect the origination of Love Spirals Downwards to be one with an almost clandestine pull drawing the two together subconsciously as though by the very hand of fate itself. As reality unfolds, however, we find the roots of the seemingly magical union to be well grounded in a more natural footing with both members unaware of what their immediate future had to offer.
“We met through a job, and we knew were both doing music, but we hadn’t really thought about doing a band thing at all. I guess we never really talked about it. It was more of a ‘singing in the shower’ kind of thing,” Suzanne reminisces about the days before Love Spirals Downwards became what they are today.
Although the initial meeting was a little uneventful as far as the duo’s musical career, a seed of romance was planted between the two which would see the growth of their creations some time later.
“We were boyfriend/girlfriend for maybe a year or two before I had her sing for me with my music. I knew her two years and I never knew she sang that well!” Lum exclaims before Perry concludes,
“We just decided to fool around with doing music, but actually Ryan resisted me singing on his music for a while because he thought it would cause problems in our relationship.”
It has become all too apparent now that Lum’s early fears were for nothing, as the two now find themselves heading into their fourth year as Love Spirals Downwards and still in a relationship that shows little sign of collapse.
Ryan and Suzanne of LSD by Pieter Lessing 1995
With the subtle first steps out of the way, the music grew quickly from a sprout to an intricate stone tower intertwined with a spiraling staircase spinning rapidly through the clouds and beyond — in only a few months. Suzanne’s voice scaled through unnatural tones effortlessly down Ryan’s intricately etched paths of shaded beauty, culminating in a sound long forgotten from the youth of the so-called ethereal masters, the Cocteau Twins. With the ship set adrift and a creative flow directing it onward, the nuances of their relationship were paced to the natural rhythm of their music, and the time soon came to open it up for all the world to see.
With little knowledge of the ethereal music scene, the duo seemed almost lost for a beginning, but the ship would soon find port through a friendly suggestion from photographer, Tom Pathe, pointing them in the direction of Sam Rosenthal’s Projekt Records label. Projekt, who have long been hailed as the new blood in the old vein of elegant music seemed to fit the music of Love Spirals Downwards like a key into it’s lock opening the door soon thereafter.
“We sent several demo tapes and he [Rosenthal] responded by writing us a nice letter back giving us his impressions of the 3-song demo. He sent us a Black Tape for a Blue Girl CD, which was good because we didn’t know anything about Projekt. To be honest, we just heard about it through our friend who does the photography for our album covers. He [Pathe] went to art school with Susan Jennings – who was Sam’s photographer for a lot of the Projekt covers. We got to hear the [Projekt] sound and we thought it was compatible with what we do, so he told us to send in more music. We sent in two more songs a couple of months later and he offered to give us the first two tracks on the “From Across This Grey Land 3” compilation, so we accepted – of course – and a month or two after that we sent another song or two and he ended up asking us if we would like our own record,” recalls Lum, who remembers his initiation into the ranks of Projekt quite well.
Perry, on the other hand, recalls a different tale to a small degree. “We later learned that it was Susan who originally liked our music. It was Susan who, I guess, really found it and said, ‘OK, listen to this!’”
“I think she pushed more than Sam did and even pushed Sam into contacting us,” Lum finishes. “The way it goes, he liked it but was fearful that we sounded too much like the Cocteau Twins, but Susan convinced him otherwise.”
With the introductions out of the way, Perry and Lum compiled the submitted tracks, along with a number of new songs, for the release of their debut effort, “Idylls,” in 1992. Almost instantly, “Idylls” became on of Projekt’s best selling and most responded to album to date. Although this may be a perpetually argued point for years to come, “Idylls,” was the decisive cog in the rejuvenation and ultimate rebirth of the ethereal darkwave scene. If there were any doubt of this, it was most certainly erased when the group emerged once more to affirm this role with their second album, “Ardor,” which became not so much a follow up to the massively successful “Idylls,” but an entirely different novel itself. “Ardor” was, from an outside perspective, a much more centered and focused effort than its predecessor. Where “Idylls” relied more on abstracts and a sense of unpredictability encased in a structure but not an overly constricting atmosphere, “Ardor” capitalized and expanded upon these attributes and added an extra amount of definition and tangibility. All of this came not necessarily as a product of talent alone, but rather through the new approach the team had taken towards song writing,
“All the bands I’ve been in before were live oriented, where we didn’t necessarily play in front of people, but we rehearsed live to write songs and hash them out together, and then we’d go and record them after. We kind of do it backwards. We never rehearse a song, we just make it up as we’re recording. That’s what Love Spirals Downwards is; we’re a product of working in our studio,” Lum defines one of many trademarks that produced “Idylls” and was carried through to the creation of “Ardor.”
While this get-up-and-go approach may have been a fuel to the fires of their success, it does expose one potentially disheartening drawback for the two when preparing to take their music into the live venue.
“We’ve been doing a little rehearsing for maybe playing live – perhaps doing some acoustic stuff – and I’m finding it really difficult to sing them live because I can’t get a breath or anything, because I’m so used to layering and not having to worry about it. I was just flipping through the radio today and heard something like Pat Benetar, and I remember saying, ‘This songs sounds like it was meant to be played lived,’ and our stuff is so NOT written to be played live,” Perry admits, though she seems unphased by its weight.
Before any thoughts of remixes, live renditions, or any other extraneous uses for the songs of Love Spirals Downwards can come into play, special focus must be made on their initial creation, as it is the obvious first step in the evolutionary process of it all. Ryan and Suzanne have remained true to this rule with a consistent and proven process of writing that continues to be the guiding hand behind the structuring of all their work.
“Its usually a building process, its just different what I start building from. Sometimes it will be a drum sound, and I’ll build on that, or it will be a keyboard or acoustic guitar part. It gets turned into a pretty full blown instrumental after awhile, and then the vocals usually come in last, near the end, and I’ll fix up the drums and mix it down some time later,” Ryan reveals the completion of the first story in the escalating high rise in detail, as though he were a master carpenter erecting a majestic Victorian era church.
Suzanne joins in immediately, capping the monument with the concluding steeple, “As far as vocals go, I’ll usually listen to a completed – or near completed – instrumental and just start humming some catchy notes into the microphone, and find some that I like, then do a rough recording of them and see how they sound. If I wait a day or two and see if the notes stick, to me, I’ll sometimes try to write some words or phonetics to them.”
As impressive as this creative process seems, in order not to cancel itself out, the two emphasize another underlying pattern which makes sure the gears of the machine do not become rusted with mindless repetition – proving that not every engine can run in the same gear forever.
“If I just walk in the studio and don’t change anything, it’s going to wind up sounding the same. I have to make some changes in my equipment and my mindset. Its just too easy to fall into the same groove as the first album and make another that sounds like and keep going forever.” Lum explains the patterns he analyzed in ensuring that “Ardor” would not become “Idylls 2” by any stretch of the imagination.
In both completed works we find an immense state of emotional freedom unleashed like shears cutting away at our every restraint — even the thickest threads of human composure. Lum’s evanescent flow of sweet introversion breeds a rhythm of inner security and strength which displaces your mind and heart from everything you’ve known to be good or bad. With each gentle sweep of the guitar and every melodic keyboard passage comes a slow push through the gates of perception into the realm of Perry’s rich, inviting voice – luring you away for a fleeting relapse of conscious control. In the voice of Love Spirals Downwards, and there are few words in some cases, there are no languages to decipher either. Perry delivers the reason for this,
“I like to use different voices, like a more powerful voice or a sweeter voice, for different songs. I get really tired of singing with that same voice, and you see that with a lot of other bands, where they use that same voice over and over again, and it’s just overbearing. After awhile everything does end up sounding the same. We get a mood for a song, and if I think it has an Italian or Latin mood to it, I’ll try to almost mimic that language to evoke that sort of mood. The songs in that way – at least on “Ardor” – are more thematic. I’d really get this picture and this mood and stick with that, but “Ardor” has been a bit different. I tried to do something with “Ardor” where I thought I’d maybe write some words to it. There are definitely more actual words on “Ardor”,” Perry concludes.
The fact that Perry uses a language all her own much of the time shows the group’s talent for ingenuity and highlights a novelty which will more than likely see it’s fair share of imitation in the years to come.
As the air around this amazing duo grows thicker with each passing ingredient thrown into the mix, the reality that is a rich history of musical training must be prominent in the past of each member. This is not true, though, as Lum explains, “In junior high and early high school, I had maybe 3 or 4 years of guitar training, but I didn’t really learn anything after the first year or so. I don’t know why I kept going.”
Perry mirrors an equal absence of regiment in her style as well, “I’ve been in choirs and have had some voice class, but I have not had any formal long-term training.”
Like many other predominantly self-taught artists such as Jimi Hendrix, Lum and Perry prove that natural talent is not something that can be taught in any school other than the mind of it’s owner. Through the honesty and extreme sincerity found lingering throughout each passage of Love Spirals Downwards’ work, we the listener can’t help but feel jealous of their gift of expression. If we could have what they hold and exercise to it’s full potential, I am quite sure most of us would carry it closer to our hearts than anything else. It is a very different story, however, for Ryan and Suzanne, as to them, their music is but a singular facet to their complex lives.
“It’s an important part of me, but it’s a very isolated part I keep in one section, and there is very little crossover. I think that’s nice for me, because I don’t have to talk about it all the time, and I don’t identify with it. I don’t want to make it sound like it’s a hobby, because it’s more than that, but it’s definitely very isolated. Not focusing on it makes it very much an escapist type activity. Through this I think about how I don’t see myself as an artist or a musician. It’s not part of the essence of me that, when I meet people, I talk first and foremost about me being an artist. I don’t think about it as part of my identity. Since I don’t think of myself as an artist, when I see things that are in my life, they impact me in a way where they impact my life, but they don’t really influence my music that much. At least, not directly. My music is something where I walk in and do it, and it’s not something I think about in my everyday life. I don’t dwell on it, or think ‘This or that will be a great part for this song!’ When I’m in the studio its sacred, but I don’t carry that persona around with me at all,” Perry admits at length.
Having now become better acquainted with the lives of Suzanne and Ryan, we should all take a second or two to think about our own existence and our own definitions. Although they may have accomplished a great deal in their short lives, it is not the message of their music for us to look upon, but rather for us to look within ourselves. There is nothing wrong with admiring Lum’s insightful tonal ventures or Perry’s lush aural presence, or even thanking them for their provisions, for they are admirable traits. What me must realize, though, is that Love Spirals Downwards are a door, and we are all on the other side waiting to get through.
“Ecstasy of Angels: Love Spirals Downwards” By Rossi Dudrick
Winged for an astral Odyssey, you’ll soar on a freed soul fantasia, where elation and melancholy are locked in epoch embrace. A sweet chanteuse’s vocals seem to sweep over misty moors, while guitar chords fall like shimmery sunlight on deep pools of tranquility. The height of your ascension is up to you, for even a modern day Icarus now has a second chance.
Although Love Spirals Downwards’ music seems to flow from a wellspring of divine inspiration, the creators of these soft-focus mood montages have no stigmata’s flooding their teacups. Such cameo apparitions burst like soap bubbles upon meeting the diaphanous duo, vocalist, Suzanne Perry, and guitarist, Ryan Lum. In the midst of a torrential downpour, they look like two fresh-faced college kids on a tailgater’s rush indoors for safe harbor more than members of the ethereal’s exotic elite.
Over a rainy day breakfast in a ‘50’s time warp diner, the pertinent debate of the moment is omelets vs. blueberry pancakes. It’s unanimous; stacks of belly whopping blues all around! Hunger pangs aside, Suzanne and Ryan exude an easygoing warmth and unpretentiousness that sparks candid rapport. “Most people are surprised that we’re down-to-earth, normal people, always joking and really practical; not head in the clouds types,” emphasizes Suzanne. “But what confounds most people is how little time I spend thinking about my music, or think[ing] of myself as a musician.”
Ryan adds, incredulously, “We dated for two years before I discovered that she could sing!” An amazing admission, considering that Suzanne’s angelic voice could lull a king’s army into blissful dreamscapes, thereby calming war torn battlefields.
“But that’s just it,” injects Suzanne, “I do it for enjoyment. That enhances my singing because it takes the pressure off. No one’s putting a lot of expectations on me, and I don’t put a lot of expectations on myself. It makes the music more honest, and not influenced by pressure to perform, get famous, or make money. I think that poisons the music.”
“Walking around with that whole musician/artist persona gets to be a lot to live up to,” adds Ryan.
Ryan and Suzanne of LSD by Pieter Lessing 1995
Insuring a consistent low-pressure climate for their craft, music is only one aspect of their lives. Suzanne has a psychology degree and works for a major research corporation, while pursuing her graduate degree. Ryan has degrees in philosophy and art.
Furthermore, Suzanne never works on music outside of the studio. “I’ve gotten conditioned to only do it in there. I have to have the microphone on, and we make the songs up as we’re recording.” Suzanne equates, “It’s like going to church, and you have this experience.”
Discussing their latest opus, Ardor, Suzanne momentarily blanks out on her favorite song’s title (“Subsequently”)“See, I told you I don’t think about it very much,” she exclaims, jokingly. “I can’t even remember the names of our songs, and I named that one!”
While Ardor is more celebratory and uplifting than their first record, Idylls, which is a dark and mysteriously exotic teardrop pond, it maintains a lingering wistfulness. Ryan attributes their evolving sound to getting older and thinking differently. Stating an additional factor, he says, “It’s not that romantic of an idea for an artist, but getting new equipment is inspiring.” Ryan is excitedly anticipating working with his new sampler for their next record. “I can start doing some wacky stuff I couldn’t do before.”
LSD’s lyrics seem to delve into the recesses of ancestral knowledge, imparting visceral swirls of forgotten languages, especially when Suzanne mimics Italian, creating a Mediterranean ambiance. “Mood and feeling are primary to our music because that invokes the vocal parts,” she explains. “I choose words that express the mood.”
Suzanne delivers other arias in poignant fragments of French, Latin, and romanticized English eloquence. Ethereal elopements abound with mystifying Roman mythological maidens, Parisian paramours or whatever whimsy your imagination encourages you to abscond with.
“Our music isn’t so attached to the world. We don’t talk about politics or…” Ryan pauses, “or much of anything, really. Because of that, you don’t have to intellectualize; you just immerse yourself. You become a creative participant as well.”
“I don’t like attaching much meaning to the music. It really makes me uncomfortable,” confides Suzanne. “I don’t know why I’m like that. I could start writing lyrics, but that would probably be kind of cheesy. That’s not my forte.”
Suzanne and Ryan roll their eyes at the mention of the Cocteau Twins comparisons. “They’re certainly an influence, but if we felt what we were doing sounded so much like the Cocteau Twins there would be no reason for doing Love Spirals Downwards,” states Ryan.
LSD is still debating over performing live with the possibility of touring Germany pending. “It seems so foreign to our style of music,” reflects Suzanne. “Singing on demand is a weird concept.”
“Yeah,” agrees Ryan. “Its easier to have a wild ‘n’ crazy slam fest than to always be captivating.”
Indeed, LSD’s unorthodox musical approach seems to make video obsolete. “It’s like seeing a film before you read the book,” says Suzanne. “It attaches all these other things, like, ‘this is how the fans look; this is the genre they’re in.’ It takes away the sacredness of the real deep experience of music. It cheapens it.”
“Not having a video or playing live preserves the mystery and that’s powerful,” injects Ryan. “That’s what’s satisfying about having the CD. ‘Here; just listen to it and make your own philosophy.’ But was it really just a CD that Ryan bestowed upon me, or an ethereal boarding pass? “Hmm…” I wonder, as my head sprouts wings.
I received Idylls in the mail from Projekt and put it in my CD player… After commenting on it being better than anything the Cocteau Twins have done since Lullabis, a friend angrily takes it out. But it’s true. The intensity quickly lost by the ‘C-word’ is present ten-fold here… LSD have released a CD on the increasingly amazing Projekt label, entitled Idylls, in addition to contribution to the Fifty Years of Sunshine comp. and a flexi from Altered Mind, an LA based ‘zine. Upcoming plans include a track on the Black Tape cover CD and a second CD. All can be acquired by writing Projekt: Darkwave… Luckily I used my summer’s journey across this Grey Land of ours (pun intended) as an opportunity to meet with friends old and new and spent a wonderful afternoon with Ryan and Suzanne of Love Spirals Downwards… Here are some extractions from our very informal interview…
r = Ryan
s = Suzanne
m = me
We’ll skip the babble about early Ministry…
r: I’m mad. I just realized we’re going to miss Taco Bell tonight.
m: a friend of mine asked me where I wanted to eat lunch today and , of course, I said that I had to eat at Taco Bell. It’s the fast food chain of choice for both. The Projekt crew are down with Taco Bell.
r: We used to have a thing for Subway earlier in the year. The veggies and cheese six inch is $1.99 and when the Cold Cut Combo goes on sale it’s $1.49, so when I was living in Santa Barbara I would buy the Cold Cut Combo because it was 50 cents cheaper and I’d go out and find a homeless person and give the meat to them. So look at this, I’m saving money and I’m happy, and I’m giving food to a homeless person.
s: Or you could get a seafood one, if you eat seafood.
m: In French it is “the fruit of the sea.”
s: Les fruits de mer.
r: I can see how that could have archaic origins. I’d be surprised if it was invented last month or something.
I’ll skip the part about the attitude of the French speaking world and various ways to retaliate…
m: Being a band from California, how do you become inspired? It seems — to me, at least — that a place like New England would be more conducive to “gothicness.” How were you originally inspired to do the music you do?
r: How can we be living out here in Disneyland”
s: Plasticland.
r: In the land of sand and sun and 110 degreee heat and still be inspired to… I don’t know, I think that question would be more fascinating to ask the Arizona people like Lycia or Soul Whirling. I guess what helps us, living out here in LA, is that it is a cosmopolitan city, arguably. We don’t feel locked out from the world.
s: There’s a lot of things around to experience; theatre and music. We got to Indian classical concert and that… As far as being “gothic,” it’s funny. When I think of stuff that’s gothic, for me I think of isolation. I think more psychologically how you’re feeling as opposed to cold weather. So it can be inspiring anywhere.
The “G” word rears it’s ugly head.
m: It’s hard to escape the term gothic while doing music that is emotional.
s. We consider ourselves more “post gothic,” I guess.
r: For us it is this sort of unavoidable term that’s needed to refer to something along this line of music. Picking us out, as opposed to calling us techno or something. It’s just a word. And now there is a good distinction between the rock side and the more ethereal side.
s: When I think of “goth” I don’t win of us fitting in that well.
r: We just do what we do and it gets called whether it gets called.
Suzanne and Ryan of Love Spirals Downwards by Susan Jennings 1992
That said, how did they start?
r: I guess there is an easy way to do it and a hard way. I’ll just do it the easy way… I had been making music for many years, starting off with a four track and then and eight track.
s: He would make music nd recording it and not send it anywhere. He was cocooning.
r: I didn’t have a singer and I was doing it for myself as opposed to trying to be a famous rock star. It did something for me emotionally, that’s why I have and continue to do it. And I guess somehow we got Suzanne…
s: In the meantime, I had been singing. I have a year or so of formal training, but I have been singing always.
r: I guess you just started singing one night. We were jamming something that became the song “Forgo,” and it sounded cool. So we carried it out and found out that we worked together nicely.
s: nearly everything we made has been put on the CD. We don’t make scratch songs.
r: I do make songs that suck, but we never work them past the early sucky stage.
s: A finished song is never scratched.
m: Making music to be heard is not your motive then, I gather?
r: That’s not the goal. It never was. That’s why I didn’t bother worrying about releasing my early stuff.
m: What prompted you then to eventually send tapes out?
r: Initially we sent a tape to old Ivo and Creation, although we didn’t know what Creation was. We just saw it on the back of the Slowdive EP.
s: What it was is that we were coming to the end of the summer and we had set a deadline. We did three songs and sent them to three places and figured if no one called us on it, we’d just keep making music.
r: Why did we even send it out? I guess I was recording another band here and they were making a tape to send out to places. So we figured, ‘Hey, we can do that!”
s: So we sent them out and forgot about it.
r: Then Sm wrote us back, surprisingly enough, and gave us positive comments…
s: We didn’t even know Sam or even own any Projekt releases.
r: All I knew about Projekt was a little bit Susan told me about it once and at the time, we didn’t even know the label was called “Projekt” or Black Tape for a Blue Girl. That was summer of ’91.
m: So things went pretty quickly after that.
r: Yeah, fairly quickly.
s: Sam didn’t say we were signed, he said to sent more stuff.
r: But he sent a nice letter, though.
s: And some Black Tape CDs.
r: So we sent him some more songs a few months after that.
s: So he said he wanted us on Grey Land 3.
r: And then he offered us the album. We thought Grey Land 3 was our big thing, that we’d made it onto something cool and then…
s: It’s funny because he sent us an offer and we didn’t answer him for two or three weeks.
r: And he wrote back.
s: And he said “You must not have gotten my letter because most people would have answered by now.”
r: For an album.
s: “Are you not interested?”
r: We waited like a month.
s: And we’re really not flaky.
r: I don’t know what happened. We were living an hour apart at the time and I wanted us to write him a letter together but that didn’t happen. So we got the second letter form Sam and luckily no bad feelings developed.
What do they do in school?
s: I’m in a masters program fro psychology.
r: I’m into the philosophy of language, the nature of reference, and meaning of words.
s: That’s funny. Last year you were Ito the philosophy of the mind.
r: I still love the philosophy of the mind, but no one at my school — none of my professors — are into it. And the philosophy of language relates a lot to it.
Kiwis
s: I love kiwi fruit.
r: (ponders) I don’t know if I’ve had it. [to Suzanne} Have I?
s: Sometimes he gets vegetables and fruits mixed up, so I have to explain how they look to him. [to Ryan} Kiwi is that green thing with the black seeds.
r: You can explain it all you want, but…
s: It’s brown, fuzzy, and small.
r: I’m not going to know what it is in here.
s: Which part is the sweet part?
m: The sour part is near the skin.
r: Here is a philosophy of language example. Right now she is referring to a class of fruits and how is she doing it? She is referring to it by describing it as a green fruit with black seeds. It is thinks like this I’m into, how we refer to things…
s: You really don’t know what kiwi fruit is?
r: roughly is what I’m studying.
s: It’s got black seeds… They’re really small.
m: In interviews you clearly make a point that Love Spirals Downwards is not short for LSD, but you put a song on the Fifty Years of Sunshine comp; a compilation celebrating the fiftieth year of the invention of the drug LSD.
r: It seems like it could be a contradiction, but it’s not. Our band name, in a way, reflects our way of making lyrics and our whole attitude towards music. What sounds best is what works.
s: Supposedly it’s not even grammatically correct to say Love Spirals Downwards.
r: We don’t care. It sounds better.
s: People read too much into it, like it has to have a hidden meaning.
r: Yeah, “What does it mean, man?”
s: “Yeah, I get the connection, man.”
r: There’s no connection to get, man. We are not saying take acid or don’t take acid. Do as you choose.
m: How did you get involved with the comp, then?
r: They asked us. Projekt distributes Silent and they deal back and forth. I guess they thought our name fit with is as a joke. I think the CD celebrates a momentous point in history, without sounding too cheesy. Think about it; I don’t think things would be as they are now if it wasn’t for that.
s: That’s your opinion. Anyway, some people get on our case about it so we kind of get defensive.
r: We aren’t anti or pro drug, we aren’t anti or pro zero. We make music. We aren’t politicians.
s: We distance ourselves from making stands on issues.
m: You record in a home studio, then mix to DAT. Is that the finished product you put on CD?
r: Yeah, once it’s on DAT, that is it. Nothing changes from there.
m: Do you have any tips for someone putting together their own home studio? Things to do or not to do?
s: Singers don’t buy anything.
r: Become familiar with the recording process before buying stuff. Learn the art and science of sound recording first, then figure out what you need without buying all sorts of junk.
m: Do you plan on playing live?
r: No.
s: We would play live if we had the time.
m: Would you incorporate other people or would you sequence…
r: DAT and a guitar. But we don’t have the time and we don’t care for the rock and roll myth; rule one: a band must play lie. Neither of us have any intention of quitting school to be band junkies. Not right now.
At our usual cozy interview spot, we spoke with new Projekt band Love Spirals Downwards’ only two members, Ryan and Suzanne. IT was the first interview ever from a band which has played just one live show. Uncertain as to their place in the scene but with a sound that leads the way, Love Spirals Downwards is a band to watch. Interview by Ariel and Aillinn.
Ryan: Is the whole interview like question and answer, or is it going to be more of an article?
AM: No, question and answer… Having hear only the two songs, “Mediterranea” and “Forgo” on [Projekt compilation] From Across This Gray Land No. 3, what can we expect from your album, which is due out in November?
Ryan: We’re mixing it right now. We just mixed the first three of the eleven or twelve songs. It will have a different feel than “Mediterranea” and “Forgo.” It’s more… what do you think? Trancey, Eastern.
Suzanne: We were a little reluctant to put those two songs on, when he [Projekt’s Sam Rosenthal] chose those two. Those are two of the three first songs that we ever sent him. They’re a little old. They’re about a year old. I guess the sound’s a little bit different [on the album]. It is a little more trancy, more Indian or Middle Eastern sounding.
Ryan: More airy and spirally and trancy. The two Gray Land 3 songs are more our old gothic sound.
Suzanne: That’s why we’re thinking people are going to be a little surprised when they hear the whole album. It’s a little more triable, as tribal as you can get with a drum machine.
AM: Give us a history, as much as there is, of the band.
Ryan: We have no history.
AM: How did you meet? How did you get on Projekt?
Ryan: Let’s see. I’ve been making music for along time, and we somehow got you [Suzanne] singing on my music.
Suzanne: He had a couple other singers before, like he was trying my sister out. [laughter] It’s funny because I was in London at the time going to school, and he was sending me tapes with my sister on it, and I thought, ‘I can sing that. In fact, I can sing that better!’ Then I kind of came back, and we started doing it.
Ryan: What got us motivated to make a demo tape and send it out to Projekt and others? How did we get from messing around to being serious?
Suzanne: We sent out that demo tape.
Ryan: We sent three songs: “Forgo,” “Meditteranea,” and another song called “Dead Language” that will be on the album.
Suzanne: We sent it to two big labels and to Projekt. We figured it was fate because one of our friends who goes to the Art Center in Pasadena knew this girl, and she’s the girlfriend of Sam from Projekt. So we sent those three songs in. We were completely surprised [at Projekt’s acceptance]. We didn’t talk about, you know, making money, getting famous — I mean, we’re not being famous or getting money. We were just kind of having fun. He was making music for so long before that, and I was just used to him making music and not sending it anywhere.
AM: And you had known each other for awhile?
Ryan: Yeah.
AM: Do you guys play live shows?
Suzaenn: We played one.
R&S: Oh God!
Suzanne: It was a little place… what city were we in?
Ryan: Someone out in this direction.
Suzanne: We had a friend who was playing, and he goes, “Hey, why don’t you guys play a couple things for us and open up for us?” We never had a sound check and I couldn’t hear myself at all.
Ryan: Do you know Moonwash Symphony? I”m friends with them, and a year or two ago I used to do strange opening act things for them. One time me and my friend did a weird electronic sustained reverb jam. After that, Suzanne and I did a few of the songs we were working on, and that was the only time we played live. We had a backing tape, and we played on top of that. If we ever play live again we’re not going to use a backing tape. It’s too much of a problem. It’ll be more acoustic type sets.
Suzanne: It would be hard because the sound is kind of hard to do live.
Ryan: Yeah, with two people. And I don’t want to put a band together.
Suzanne: I don’t think it would do it justice.
Ryan: We would have to do an acoustic st. We don’t have any plans to play anywhere for awhile unless something interesting comes up.
AM: Who, ideally, do you think you fans are?
Ryan: We don’t have any fans.
AM: Who would they be?
Ryan: If we were to get fans… right now it’s just people that we know that know us close enough that we show them our music. People we don’t know, is that what you’re talking about? People who would buy it on Projekt?
Suzanne: Maybe people who are unsatisfied with current trends in commercial music, and, like, the recent 4AD sound is kind of disappointing, so people have to go underground.
Ryan: I’d like everyone to like it.
Suzanne: We like more 60’s stuff like Popul Vuh.
Ryan: I’m not familiar with who buys from Projekt. From what I gather it seems to have a real gothic appear. But hearing Gray Land 2, the sound is really diverse. Not everyone is really gothic like Lycia. We’re more eon the O Yuki Conjugate – Popal Vuh side of Projekt than the Lycia side. I don’t know who our fans are going to be. I hope it will be all kind of people; gothic people, hippie deadheads, anyone who likes to expand their consciousness through music. Not through drugs, through music.
AM: The LSD in your name has nothing to do with the drug?
Suzanne: No. Originally, it was Love Spirals Upwards, and we just kind of thought…
Ryan: “Downwards” had a nicer ring to it.
AM: Sounds more “Projekty,” for some reason.
Ryan: It did give it a more gothic twist.
Suzanne: We did think of [the initials], and LSU was like Louisiana State University or something.
Ryan: LSD is cooler than LSU.
AM: Are your influences more in classical or tradition music or in rock?
Ryan: Definitely not classical fore me. Western classical I would say a definite no. Indian classical, ye.
Suzanne: We go to see the Indian concerts at Occidental College.
Ryan: We always try to look for really percussive bands, for lack of a better tern, or ones that have really strange sounding string instruments, or ones that have nice vocals for [Suzanne] to listen to.
AM: As a new band, what do you expect for your career?
Ryan: I’d like to do a second album, definitely. I wouldn’t want this to be our first and last. Personally would like to see our band grow, as far as reaching a lot of people. I’m not talking billions of people or like you can go to Music Plus and buy it.
Suzanne: I try not to think about that because so many people have all these ideas in their minds before they even make the music. It’s like, “We’re in the Rosemarys.” And I go, “Who’s in your band?” “Oh, we don’t have a band yet, but we’re the Rosemary’s.”
Ryan: Yeah, “We’re gonna practice here, do this kind of music, record in this studio, appeal to this kind of age, category, class,” you know. We’re really free and experimental with our music, and I think we’re probably free and experimental as far as how our career’s going.
AM: Who write the songs? Is it collaborative?
Ryan: I’ll do just about all the music. I do the music first, usually.
Suzanne: He’ll usually do the whole music and play it or me, and I’ll come up with ideas, just notes and things, either on my own or with him.
Ryan: Then we craft the vocals in with the music.
Suzanne: Then we record it, and we barely ever play it more than what’s done in the studio. Sometimes he can’t even remember what he played because he did it in the studio, and that’s it.
Ryan: We’re recording artists as opposed to performing artists.
AM: Does either of you have formal musical training? Suzanne: I had one year of vocal training, but I never practice. I’ve been singing since I was little, though. When I was five years old I thought I was Annie.
Ryan: About ten years ago I had guitar lessons for about three or four years, but everything I do know I learned on my own.
Suzanne: He has the eight-track, so he’s been fooling around on that for a long time.
Ryan: I”m more of a recording engineer than a guitar whiz.
Suzanne: Yeah, we manipulate the equipment, and then we don’t do it unless we’re in the studio. Sometimes we’ll hum the song or something, but it’s really in the room that we do most of the stuff. It’s really unbandlike.
Ryan: Some friends don’t know we’re in a band. They don’t perceive us as band members.
Suzanne: We don’t walk around with guitars.
Ryan: A lot of our friends didn’t take it seriously that she was on a label. They were like, ‘Suzanne on a label, yeah right. You’re not in a band.’ We’re really unbandlike.
